I have an economics degree from Stanford.
During my four years of study, the word “ecology” was never mentioned.
Inequality was barely discussed. Whether endless growth was possible – let alone desirable – was never asked. If you’ve ever taken an economics class, chances are you learned exactly the same things I did.
That’s not a coincidence; the economics most of us were taught was designed around a single goal – growth – and a set of assumptions about human nature that disregarded the essentials of life. We were never taught to ask what the economy is actually for, or to imagine an alternative that could actually deliver human and planetary wellbeing.
My podcast guest today, Kate Raworth, has made it her life’s work to fix the economics discipline. That’s why she calls herself a “renegade economist” — and it’s why she wrote her famous book Doughnut Economics and co-founded the Doughnut Economics Action Lab.
We recorded this conversation at her home in Oxford – and it’s one of the most important conversations I’ve had. Reading Doughnut Economics for the first time changed the way I saw the world, so it was a great honor (and an incredible full-circle moment) to interview Kate in her kitchen.
In the episode, we get into why mainstream economics was designed the way it is; the fictional character at the heart of economic thinking; and what a genuinely distributive economy might look like. We also talk about how Amsterdam, Brussels, and cities around the world have adopted the doughnut as their lens for rethinking how they measure success and thriving, and the success they’re having so far.
I’m deeply grateful for Kate’s generosity and for her work. Be sure to check out the Doughnut Economics Action Lab for resources on how cities around the world are adopting Doughnut Economics, and follow Kate on Bluesky, LinkedIn, and X.
A quick note to our subscribers: We recently launched our subscriber chat, where we’ll be sharing a head’s up about who I’m interviewing next – and giving paid subscribers a chance to suggest questions for me to ask. We’re excited to use this new space to get you even closer to these conversations. Thank you for your critical support getting this new media project off the ground.
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As always, stay curious, stay hopeful. See you soon.
- Michael
