Why Capitalism Can’t Save Us: Jason Hickel on Climate, AI & Empire
Episode 003 of the Better Future podcast (and a personal milestone)
Episode 003 of the Better Future podcast is now live, featuring a very special guest: Jason Hickel. Jason is a professor at the Institute for Environmental Science & Technology (ICTA) at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, and author of two books: The Divide and Less Is More.
This episode marks an important personal milestone for me. Jason Hickel has been a major inspiration for me ever since I found his work back in 2020. In many ways, his research — and his ability to communicate it so effectively — inspired me to set off on the path I’m on now. So when I came up with the idea for this podcast, and made a list of who I’d want to interview, Jason Hickel was literally the first name on that list.
I’m not exaggerating when I say that getting the chance to interview him in person in Barcelona, and getting to share it with you now, is a dream come true.
In this episode, we discuss why a growth-based capitalist economy is incompatible with a livable planet, and what a truly democratic, post-capitalist economy could look like. We cover lots of topics – including degrowth, AI, the history of capitalist imperialism, and how to achieve a democratic ecosocialist transition.
Watch the full episode here:
Thanks to Pompeu Fabra University (UPF) for generously providing us with a space for this interview.
To learn more about Jason Hickel and his work, visit his personal website here. And be sure to check out his recent project (created in collaboration with a team of fellow researchers) which visualizes data and research on global inequality. You can also follow him on social media: He’s on Twitter, Instagram, and Bluesky.
You can support the Better Future podcast by subscribing on YouTube, Spotify, or Apple — and by sharing this episode with a friend you think would enjoy it.
By the way: I published the first two podcast episodes directly to Substack, but the backend analytics have left me wondering whether that’s an effective way to distribute the podcast. So, this time, I’m directing you to the YouTube video above. If you prefer having the episodes available on Substack directly, please reply and let me know.
Thanks for being here!
-Michael
This interview had quite an impact on me. I’m on such a fun and exciting journey, diving into what a post-capitalist world can look like, learning so much. Even though I’m 50 I feel like I’m a kid learning again. It’s delightful! https://remtheory.substack.com/p/i-think-im-an-eco-socialist
My critique of popular politicians like Mamdani, AOC, and Sanders, is that they accept the premise of the current 'system and structure' and propose to patch it up with 'liberal' reforms, but not fundamentally change it; meanwhile the current system and structure of governance is fundamental to the suffering and privilege to be 'patched up'. Wittingly or otherwise, these politicians keep a large number of sufferers and dissatisfied people within the boundaries of what the current system and structure will allow, reinforcing those boundaries as the limits of what is feasible, when these people would otherwise look outside the status quo for relief. I.e., they serve as system 'sheepdogs'.
https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii154/articles/aaron-benanav-beyond-capitalism-2